Interview with Shannon McGahn
Shannon McGahn is the Chief Advocacy Officer for the National Association of Realtors. She previously served as the staff director for the House Financial Services Committee and counselor to the Secretary of the Treasury. She is a Kentucky Colonel.
If You Want a Friend in D.C., Get a Dog
Contents
Max Raskin: Okay, so we’re recording now.
Shannon McGahn: …we already covered the most controversial Golden Girls stuff, so I think we're good.
What’s that behind you — oh, you’re a Kentucky colonel, right?
Max Raskin: Yes, I am.
SM: I'm a Kentucky colonel too!
MR: I didn’t know that!
So, this is my first time interviewing a good friend. But I only looked through my list of interviews quickly, so if anyone reads this, don't get offended if I don’t say we’re good friends.
I wanted to start by asking about friendship. In addition to being a good friend of mine you are a good friend generally.
First question: Do you have a best friend?
SM: What’s that line? If you need a friend in D.C., get a dog.
We have a 12-week-old puppy, and he likes to chew on everything except for the expensive chew toys we bought for him. Friends don't do what Gipper is doing, he is quite the handful. But where there’s a will, there’s a way, and wanting to be friends is how you grow into a very nice friendship.
MR: Who would you say is your oldest friend? Do you have friends from high school?
SM: I do. I have a handful of folks from high school whom I've stayed in touch with, but one in particular, thanks to Snapchat. I’m not a millennial, but I Snapchat like one, and I joined years ago so I could actually start conversing with my tweener nieces and nephews. They moved on, so now I reconnect with folks from all over. So yeah, I stay in touch with a buddy I've known since ninth grade.
I've been in D.C. now since the late 1900s, so it's a little easier to stay in touch with folks who are nearby. But when you're from a big family like mine, it's hard to keep up with a lot of friends because you have to keep up with a big family!
MR: You’re a D.C. person now — how do you stay in touch with regular Americans?
SM: I still call myself a Buckeye, even though I've lived here longer than I lived in Ohio. But I am a Buckeye. So, what was the question?
MR: How do you stay normal?
SM: Am I?
MR: No. But you're not a jerk.
SM: Aw, thanks, Max! I think that's what we bonded over when we worked together at Treasury. I'm sorry that you had experiences with jerks in D.C. I've found that D.C. is one of the best cities in the world because you're surrounded by passionate, fun, committed people from all over the country or even the world, and they come here, and it becomes a very humbling experience pretty quickly. And the longer you stay here, the more you realize, okay, this is the industry, and everyone is welcome.
They say Hollywood and D.C. are very similar, and I’ve heard that if you actually live in Hollywood, the people who have families there and raise their kids there turn out great.
McGahn for Class President!
MR: What was your earliest political memory?
SM: Watching President Ronald Reagan’s acceptance speech on TV at the 1984 convention with my dad. I have been a news junkie since I'm old enough to remember. My parents always had the TV on, and it was often CNN or the local news…or America’s Most Wanted. Those are different memories.
MR: When did you make the decision that this is what you're going to do with your life?
SM: Probably in high school? I remember playing basketball in high school and I was no good but enjoyed it. And when I declared that I wasn’t going to try out for the team again, my parents and my older brothers and sisters all flipped out, "No, you have to play sports. What are you going to do?" And I said, "I'm going to get into politics." They're like, "That's even worse." And I just started volunteering on campaigns.
MR: What was the first campaign you worked on?
SM: Kasich — He's Our Congressman!
John Kasich for Congress. I'm from Westerville and grew up right down the street from him with the Kasich signs everywhere. I did the “block walking” and actually took classes at The Ohio State University my senior year in high school so I could participate in the college political scene. We traveled around the state, and I even worked on a campaign in a beautiful area that my mom's family is from — Gallipolis. Got the bug and then applied to about every school in Washington, D.C.
Georgetown rejected me — I am still not over it — but I went to The George Washington University and had a wonderful experience. Fun fact, George Washington is actually closer to the Georgetown scene than Georgetown is.
I started interning on the Hill my sophomore year and just never looked back.
MR: And who'd you intern for your first internship?
SM: John Kasich, He's Our Congressman.
So that was a bumper sticker — Kasich, He's Our Congressman. He was actually running for president during that time. It was right before the 2000 primary, so I interned in his office, and I had worked on some FEC political compliance through some of those campaigns.
D.C. (Dana Carvey)
MR: What’s your favorite Saturday Night Live political impression over the years?
SM: Do you say impressions or impersonations? What’s the difference?
MR: I don’t know.
SM: Well, because we are actual real-life friends, you know that I love Saturday Night Live, and I've been watching it religiously since elementary school. Right now, I'm so excited for Dana Carvey being back. I listen to his podcast with David Spade. It's called Fly on the Wall. I've been listening to it since it very first came out, and it's just a really fun, fascinating thing. You can just see in his face just how excited he is to be back.
I try to think of that…if you had the opportunity to go back to an old job, knowing what you know now, would you enjoy it more? The best job on Capitol Hill was to be a staff assistant. When you're a staff assistant for a member of Congress, you have no trouble getting to know everybody. You're giving tours, you know everything that's going on in the office. It really is fun. You make no money, but it's so fun. As it turns out I do need a couple more years of federal government service before I can hit retirement. So someday I might be asking you to hire me as your staff assistant when you're a senator or something.
MR: What's your favorite SNL cast of all time?
SM: Some of the former cast members have a whole theory on this, and it's whenever you really get into music, that's the year and cast of SNL that you really like.
I've always been into music, so I like the pretty early cast or anything with Norm Macdonald and Phil Hartman, two all-time favorites. I loved the Chris Farley and Adam Sandler and David Spade days and their movies. Gap Girls and Wayne’s World were some of my absolute go-to skits. So, basically, I still have the sense of humor of a 12-year-old.
MR: Do you still watch it?
SM: I watch it every week.
Popular opinion — I think that Alec Baldwin actually is one of the best impressionists who's on there.
MR: But why did he do RFK Jr. instead of Trump?
SM: Well, he doesn't do Trump anymore because James Austin Johnson does just a phenomenal one.
MR: You think he's better than Baldwin as Trump?
SM: I think he is, but I think Baldwin actually did a pretty decent Trump. I've seen all of 30 Rock probably three times, Tina Fey knows how to spot talent.
Didn’t you interview Al Franken, too?
MR: Yeah, I got to interview him.
SM: SNL royalty. We have a book he signed for our son when he was in the Senate. We’re saving it to give it to him when he's older. It says:
"Dear Donald,
Grow up!
Al Franken."
Back to Ohio
MR: What are your favorite podcasts?
SM: Oh, geez, Max, how much time do you have? I listen to a ton of podcasts. I used to love reading. Growing up, I was a voracious reader, and then you become a mom, and it's like, "Nope.” The book opens, and the eyes close.
I already mentioned that Fly On the Wall is fantastic. A crowd pleaser one is Dolly Parton's America. If you’re looking for a bonkers political history story, Missing in Alaska, which is about the disappearance of Congressman Hale Boggs and Nick Begich, is very well done. I listen to Kathleen Madigan's Pubcast and Popapologist and Bill Maher’s Club Random every week.
I bought my mom and sisters tickets to see Kathleen Madigan in Columbus, sadly, I couldn’t make it. We delivered her some Conn’s salt and vinegar potato chips. Everywhere she goes, she likes some local flavor, and she complimented the chips on air. Huge highlight of my podcast listening. They're the best chips — I'll send you some.
MR: Is there anything Ohio food-wise you miss?
SM: I miss everything. My dad had a pizza restaurant, and I was working there when I was old enough to fold boxes and count change. And by “change” I mean these round metallic pieces of money — it’s like a physical version of bitcoin, but I don’t mean that for tax purposes.
Columbus style pizza is a unique style, and I have been hoping that something would open up in D.C. serving it. It’s a circular pizza — thin, crispy crust, loaded up with toppings, cut into squares.
Donato's is the larger chain, but it's really, really good pizza. It is my dream someday to be able to open up a similar style place in the D.C. area. And make my kids work there.
MR: What's your favorite Ohio song or band?
SM: Oh, I know you want me to say the Pretenders’ “My City Was Gone.”
MR: I was hoping you’d say “Moon Over Parma.”
SM: Well, it actually, “Hang On Sloopy” by The McCoys.
It’s the fight song of the Buckeyes. My dad had every football game on, and I don't love watching football. Shocking. I know. But I love the marching band, so I would just fall asleep on the couch, and then you hear the marching band start playing “Hang on Sloopy.” I still get goosebumps every time I hear it.
Inside Inside the Beltway
MR: For someone who has been to D.C. and wants to do a deeper cut next time they visit, what would you recommend seeing?
SM: National Archives is the coolest of the Smithsonian Museums. Actually, it's the second coolest of the Smithsonian Museums. The best, and I recommend it to everyone, and no one ever takes me up on it, is go out to the Udvar-Hazy Center in Northern Virginia. It’s the Air and Space Museum that actually has the World War II planes, the Concorde, and a Space Shuttle.
When I was still on the Hill, they brought the Space Shuttle Discovery into D.C. It was one of the coolest things. I was at the Rayburn Building and all these Hill staffers walked out watching an actual space shuttle being towed in the sky on top of a 747 and cheering, "USA! USA!"
The first time I saw it, Max, I broke down into tears. And you know I don't have tear ducts. Oh, it was just so emotional and so cool. And I tell everyone go see it. And they don’t. There's an IMAX theater there, too - we saw the Top Gun sequel there. It’s a special place.
MR: You’ve had to travel a lot for politics. Do you have any travel tips?
SM: I travel a ton and every single time I forget to pack something incredibly important. So, I'm a terrible frequent traveler, but I’ve learned to enjoy airports.
If there's a Chili's, I'm there. If there's a Margaritaville, go for it.
I board the plane last to maximize my time at Margaritaville.
MR: So just one on a human level I think you’re the best person in D.C…
SM: …telling your father-in-law you said that.
MR: …do you have someone who was like that for you — someone who was smart and influential but also a great person?
SM: That’s a really good question. I have had a lot of mentors in life. There’s really no way to learn how D.C. works, how governance works, how politics works, unless you just do it. Just jump into it and hope the people around you are cool and know what they’re doing. I was lucky to find those people.
Also, I’m not going to ruin anyone’s reputation by giving them credit or blame, but there are folks I’ve known since I was 19 years old who gave me a chance and still do this day. I try to pay it forward.
MR: What about your former boss Tom DeLay?
SM: A million times over. I still talk to him; he is a great man.
MR: Who's the funniest political person you've met?
SM: Other than you?
MR: She’s joking everyone who’s reading.
I think it's going to come across in the interview that we're friends, which is good.
SM: Oh, we’ve got them fooled.
From Gen X to Helicopter Mom
MR: Can you talk to me about your podcast?
SM: My colleague Patrick Newton started a podcast to cover all things that are happening in real estate-related advocacy, and it's only once a month for about 20-30 minutes. He is an amazing communicator and has a background in broadcast news. I refuse to listen to it and just go along for the ride.
MR: Why do you refuse to listen to it?
SM: So, I usually listen to podcasts while falling asleep. And then sometimes I'll forget to hit the option to, "Turn off when current episode ends," and I wake up and hear the sound of my own voice, and it’s just nightmare inducing. So, absolutely not.
MR: You don't like the sound of your own voice?
SM: Of course not. Supposedly no one does. I might unsubscribe to my own podcast.
MR: You're a really good parent. I know you're going to make some joke about it because I know you're going to. You're going to be like, "Oh yeah, I just leave my kids on the side of the road and somehow they make it back home." But what's your high-level parenting philosophy? And what's your advice for ages one to three?
SM: So those are what we call the parole officer years where you just follow them around like, "No, no, don't touch that. No."
Having this puppy is just reminding me how easy kids are compared to dogs because they don't go anywhere. You can at least put them in their crib or take them around in a stroller, and they're okay.
I think people tend to do the opposite of what they grew up with. I had a very large family. My parents were amazing and protective, but they also were just, "Oh, you're going to be out on your bike all day. Great." Very much a Generation X upbringing. And then I'm the helicopter mom.
MR: You are?
SM: Yes. Just always on top of them. What are they doing? Where are they?
One of the best parts of parenting is that now I have a thirteen-year-old at home and he's taller than me. It’s so weird. But now I can buy nice sweaters that he will never wear and then outgrow, and I get the hand-me-downs.
But to be serious, all you need is to be loving and honest and caring and take their side and root for them whenever possible. Those are things that matter. And to have a good sense of humor. They're funny. They want to be in on the joke. And I think the sooner you can kind of talk to them that way…I call both my boys and am like, "Dude, bro, what's up?" And they respond so much better and so much funnier to that than to mommy talk.
Also, making sure they always come along. I have been bringing them to work events whenever possible since they were little. I would bring them to Capitol Hill, to the White House, to conferences around the country. Family is the best, and it means you have built-in emotional support humans.
MR: Your kids have really good manners. How did you teach them good manners?
SM: It depends on the day,
MR: But they call me Mr. Max. My students won’t call me Mr. Max.
SM: That’s because I'm leaning down and saying, "Call him Mr. Max, don’t be rude." Like Gary in Veep, which is by far the most accurate political show.
I think the more that they're around grownups, the more they feel they’re a part of the thing, and it’s easier to get with the program.
Zillow Gone Wild
MR: My last question is about scrolling on Zillow. I think once you get married a big part of your life becomes fantasy scrolling real estate.
SM: So I use all of them. I have all the apps. Realtor.com has great coverage of the market and really clever news stories. Also, Zillow Gone Wild is fun.
MR: If money and time weren’t an issue, what’s the house you want?
SM: Growing up in a very idyllic 19th-century Victorian-era town in Ohio has spoiled me for all houses. I love the idea of buying an old Victorian home and fixing it up. And then I also know that would be way too much work, and I could never do it. That doesn’t stop me from visiting Circa Old Houses, where, if you are listing an older home, they help to advertise to people like me who just drool over old houses. There’s a website called Save the Pink Bathrooms, which I’ve visited for years. There’s a pretty significant community of people like me who like old homes, and I guess the big bills that come with it.
MR: You should have a podcast where you just share your favorite stuff for five minutes every week.
SM: Well, if you ever listen to my podcast, that’s sort of how it starts and ends. The housing stuff is just bait.
But I would need way more than five minutes. Consuming information is really quite the habit.