Mark Kaganovich is an American scientist. He is the founder and CEO of Tracer Biotechnologies.

Eat, Drink, Think

Contents

Max Raskin: I always like talking to scientists and medical people about what they eat and drink. What do you drink, how much do you drink of it, and what do you put in it?

Mark Kaganovich: I drink two to four liters of water a day, and I put Ultima powder in it.

MR: What flavor?

MK: Orange. Sodium-free electrolytes.

MR: And why do you do that?

MK: It's supposed to help with hydration. The water helps a lot with hydration.

MR: But why is hydration important?

MK: Well, your body needs to absorb water for general function. Skin, nervous system, muscles, sleep.

MR: Do you think it just makes everything a little bit better?

MK: Yes. If you ever get a headache or are not sleeping well, a lot of that is probably dehydration, just as simple as that. And as you get older, it gets harder.

MR: I started drinking a lot of water last year.

MK: But you don't like the electrolytes?

MR: You know I hate those electrolytes.

What about your diet?

MK: I try to do the 7/11 diet. That's where you only eat between 11:00 am and 7:00 pm. It's mild intermittent fasting, not very intense. And I eat dairy-free yogurt.

MR: What brand?

MK: Kite Hill — it's almond milk yogurt. And I think I might be their biggest customer.

MR: Do you snack during the day?

MK: I'll have almonds and chocolate throughout the day.

MR: Then what do you eat? Do you eat red meat?

MK: No, no red meat. I just eat eggs and then salmon for dinner. I'm kind of a creature of habit.

MR: What about exercise?

MK: I do CrossFit four to five times a week, and I really like it.

MR: When you have a question about health or exercise or something like that, who do you go to as your expert?

MK: Gopal, my co-founder. I go to him with all of my health neurosis, medical questions, everything.

MR: Do you think he's the smartest person you know?

MK: I think so.

Science for Science’s Sake

MR: Who do you like reading who writes about science?

MK: Well, I like Twitter, X and for science stuff, we have a great advisor named Alex Dickinson who posts a lot about DNA sequencing, proteomics, and sometimes random interesting things and does it thoughtfully and genuinely.

MR: Do you think of yourself as a scientist?

MK: That’s a good question. I would say no in the way that word is currently used by most people, but yes in the way that maybe it was used in the past or maybe should be used.

So I trained as a scientist in the sense that I studied biochemistry and computer science as an undergrad, and then I received a PhD in genetics. I continue to engage with the latest published research in oncology and particularly the ctDNA space. But I think “scientist” nowadays is mostly an occupation. And I think it's not so much about what maybe it was originally, which was just sort of free inquiry.

What I really like about entrepreneurship and business and investing, especially in the science field, is that you are constantly engaging in mini experiments. You’re finding out if something's working or not, and you are forming a hypothesis and you are attempting to disprove the hypothesis or support it with evidence. I find so much of that activity goes on outside of what people label ontologically as “scientist.” If you look at a lot of the people who are articulate and clear in their pursuit of understanding some truth, they're often investors or operators.

MR: Who are some of your favorite people like this?

MK: Well, I love Charlie Munger, and I know that's not a particularly contrarian admiration, but I’m re-reading Poor Charlie's Almanack and just think he is a quintessential scientist in that he has ideas, he attempts to support them with evidence, and he does so by just unbiased collection of knowledge, which is awesome.

If you look at many of the great investors who choose to publicly share opinions, even unrelated to their specific work, they tend to exhibit great clarity and reasoning.

Kaganovich’s Paradox

MR: Along these lines, you discovered the Kaganovich Paradox, correct?

MK: Yes.

MR: Can you tell my readers about it?

MK: The Kaganovich Paradox is when you name mundane observations after yourself.

MR: Why’s that a paradox?

MK: I first thought of it when I heard about Simpson’s Paradox for the first time, which is also not a paradox, by the way. Why did it need a name?

MR: Who are some scientists that you think still have this free inquiry?

MK: Gopal, my Tracer cofounder, definitely.

This is kind of a side note, but having gone through the system, I can say that there are a lot of scientists who aren't scientists.

The Seventh User of Facebook

MR: You were the seventh user of Facebook?

MK: Yeah.

MR: Can you tell me the story of how that happened?

MK: Well, I don't want to play it up too much because it's a little corny and hokey.

MR: No, no. Play it up.

MK: I was friends and classmates with Mark Zuckerberg. We were in several math and computer science classes (we were in Linear Algebra together), and he was a great guy and very smart.

MR: And when did he tell you about it?

MK: I knew he was working on some stuff in his dorm room, and I was actually also friends with Eduardo. The day that it launched was February 4th, and he messaged it to me on AIM.

MR: And then you just signed up?

MK: I just signed up. He just sent a link to a new thing that he made, and I just signed up.

MR: Did you give him feedback?

MK: It was super simple. It was really just a facebook. You’d put one picture up and the only function was to add friends and invite other people. So there wasn't even much feedback. Later that summer, he made a file sharing network on top of Facebook called Wirehog, and I thought that was really cool. But he smartly didn't pursue that.

Basically I told him to add another “the” — The The Facebook.

Superhuman Tools

MR: You’ve also sold a biotech company and just started a new one. What are some tools that you use to be productive?

MK: Well, I like Superhuman. I know that you said that it's a sign of being mentally unwell, but I like it.

MR: I'm not putting that in the interview.

Do you have any apps on your phone you use that most people would benefit from knowing about that they may not have heard of?

MK: Reverse Lookup.

MR: Why cancer research? What's the emotional drive behind why you're doing what you're doing?

MK: If you're interested in making something out of nothing, which is what starting a company is, then you really have to like the people that you're working with and the space that you're working in, because it's going to take a while. And it's just very difficult. You're just faced with constant challenge, and the more you're succeeding, the more challenges there are.

And I think there are a handful of areas right now that are just insanely exciting, that draw interesting smart people, and that can have impact. And I think that oncology is one of them. I think it's really one of the top five areas — in oncology broadly, and the detection space more narrowly.

MR: You and Gopal have this amazing relationship — in business and friendship. How do you guys keep track of your to-dos and your business relationship?

MK: We actually use Signal to communicate. Signal, pen and paper, email, and calendar. And we specifically don't use Slack. Can't stand Slack.

MR: Why?

MK: I think there's just too much buzzing and distraction. It’s performative work and neurosis that takes the place of actually doing high leverage things. We decided when we started that we're going to do everything we can to minimize that kind of stuff.

MR: How do you keep from going on social media too much?

MK: That’s hard. Twitter is definitely my weak spot. There's just so much great content. And if you’re prone to distraction…

MR: …do you think you're prone to distraction?

MK: Definitely.

MR: How do you deal with that?

MK: A little hack is how you start your day. I find if I start my day reading and rather than in a harried, hurried, frazzled way, then I really have my shit together the rest of the day. And it's so crazy how that is but for some reason it works.

MR: How do you end your end day?

MK: I watch some TV with my wife.

MR: What do you watch?

MK: Whatever is the thing that people are watching.

Dancing Naked in the Mind Field

MR: What are you reading right now?

MK: I'm reading many books in parallel (like I said, prone to distraction). I am reading the Munger book right now. I also have the book that we’re studying and The Last Kings of Shanghai.

MR: No science?

MK: No science. I particularly enjoy biography and autobiography. The last “science” book I read was Kary Mullis' autobiography, Dancing Naked in the Mind Field. He was the inventor of PCR technology and was absolutely wild. He was really a free thinker and had a lot of crazy ideas. Some of them were wrong, but some of them were really right and hugely impactful. PCR must be on the list of most impactful technologies of the last hundred years.

MR: Do you listen to podcasts?

MK: I enjoy stories about successful businesses, so I like Acquired. I listen to Joe Lonsdale's podcast, Alex Dickinson just launched one called Geonomics which is awesome, and of course TBPN.

MR: I want to end by saying you don’t mess around.

MK: Ok.

MR: How should I spell that?