Interview with Mark Gerson
Mark Gerson is a businessman and philanthropist. He is the founder of the Gerson Lehrman Group.
The Networker’s Network
Contents
Max Raskin: I wanted to start with the concept of networking. You're someone who created a company around network, so first question is: How do you keep track of people? Do you have a really good Rolodex? Paper Rolodex? On the phone?
Mark Gerson: I don't have a system. Not that I shouldn't. I know there are plenty of people with very effective systems for maintaining their relationships, growing their relationships. For better or for worse…I mean, probably for worse…I just don't have one.
MR: What does your phonebook look like?
MG: I would say it's not that systematic, really at all. We host events in our home where networks are impossible to do on our own; we’ll involve other people, but again, even that’s not systematic.
We do Shabbat dinners for singles all the time, and when I think about valuable use of the network, that's clearly one of them. But that doesn't all come from us. We do that with partners and co-hosts, that kind of thing.
MR: And what about keeping track of your day? Do you schedule every minute?
MG: I use a calendar very much like everybody else. No different whatsoever. My day will be split between business activities, the two charities I chair, the learning I do, the Torah I teach, and the book I'm writing. The last three are kind of in one bucket because it really relies upon the same knowledge. So every day is a little different, but it'll incorporate really all three of those things.
MR: I don’t know why but I thought you’d be more obsessive about your schedule and contacts.
MG: I probably should be. I make no defense for it.
MR: But it obviously works.
MG: It works but it could be improved. Certainly as you talk about it, I realize it could be improved. It's not like I at some point ever said, "There are all these systems and I hereby reject them." I probably should be more systematic.
I think I probably organized my relationships very much like many people do, which is not to say there can't be a better way. And if you think about it though, it's surprising that we can't think of a company that facilitates this pretty easily. You didn't say, "Oh, you don't use XYZ Corp?" But no, it's interesting.
MG: Maybe that's a business opportunity. I don't know.
MR: I had this idea that if I were to ask you, “Do you know someone who’s an expert on lung cancer in South African youth?” You’d know who to talk to.
MG: GLG has exquisite categorization on precisely kind of thing.
MR: But that's not from your personal practice?
MG: No. That's industrial-strength, systems-level.
You’re kind of making me realize this is an area for improvement for me here, so I'm glad you brought it up.
Torah on the Treadmill
MR: What does your Jewish study look like today?
MG: So probably about 15 years ago, I developed an addiction to exercise. And when I say addiction to exercise, it's an addiction. I physically cannot start my day without running six miles on the elliptical.
It's either an hour on the treadmill or an hour and 15 minutes on the elliptical. One of the two. But it's an addiction. I cannot go a day without it. For instance, when I travel to Israel, you land at 4:00 PM. I will not make a plan till 8:00 PM because I have to have an hour of exercise. And the only thing I really care about in a hotel is a 24-hour gym.
But it's an absolute addiction, and there's no addiction that's good. An addiction will, to one extent or another, govern your life, which is one of the reasons why any normalization of drugs is just abominable. I know how my exercise addiction governs my life. I can only imagine what it would do to the life of somebody who was addicted to something more powerful. I can only imagine. Everyone should stay far away from anything that can addict them. Anyway, I have this addiction to exercise. Not missed a day in years and years.
And I study the Torah on the treadmill. I'll do video or audio, obviously you can't do text. I'll do audio or video for either an hour or an hour and 15 minutes. I focus on studying peshat (straightforward) commentary on the weekly Torah portion, unfortunately only in the English language. So I study for an hour every day. And as I'm studying, I take shorthand notes.
MR: What did you watch today?
MG: I watched a video from last year and two years ago from Rabbi Efrem Goldberg at the Boca Raton Synagogue. Truly great English language commentator.
So I'll take notes on the iPad and then I will email them to an associate I work with in Jerusalem, and then an hour later we'll go over those notes and anything else that pertains to my teaching.
MR: What is your religious journey in a nutshell? What got you into it?
MG: I was Bar Mitzvah-ed at Temple B'nai Jeshurun in Short Hills. You probably went to a lot of Bar Mitzvahs there. And then of course I married a rabbi in 2007, making me the rabbi's husband. But then I really started studying seriously before then, probably a couple years before then.
The beginning of my study was the Haggadah. When you study the haggadah, you're really studying the greatest hits of Jewish thought, which all derives from the Torah. So I ended up studying a lot of Torah and just seeing how all of life's great and most interesting and most contemporary and relevant questions were asked and answered in the Torah. So I started studying every day, facilitated by the fact that I developed this exercise addiction and have an hour to do so every single day.
MR: Do you ever find yourself drifting either towards more or less observance? And how does that affect your relationship with your wife or with your kids?
MG: Why does the Torah say, "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob," rather than, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"? Why does it have the other two “of’s”? The answer is to emphasize that everybody has a different approach to God, and consequently a different approach to his or her faith. That's clearly what it means, otherwise it would have said, "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob," instead of "Of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob." So everyone has a different approach to faith, or everyone can be comfortable in having a different approach to faith.
We're completely aligned in level of observance. I mean, I'm not frum. Obviously a lot of the people whose work I study are, and a lot of people I study with are, but what does it mean to be frum? We do Shabbat dinner every single week, usually with guests. Anywhere from our immediate family, which is pretty rare, to 60 guests every week. And with complete consistency, which is obviously the only way really to approach Shabbat. And then every Saturday morning at 10:00 AM we study on Zoom, so people come from all over to come on Zoom. We study the weekly Torah portion on Zoom.
The King and the king
MR: Do your kids have the same level of observance of you?
MG: Well, yeah, they're raised in our home and they're also very young. Actually, they used to be very young. Now they're just young.
MR: What would you do if one of your kids flipped out and became real observant overnight?
MG: I don't think anybody should flip out. I mean, I think Maimonides's advice on this was right, which is particularly in matters of emotional regulation—the Golden Mean.
Flipping out is bad. No matter which way one flips out, because you know, you flip out one way, you flip out the other way. Instead of flipping out, which is really a bad practice, a much better model is that offered by Jacob in the Torah when Jacob climbed the ladder. So why was it a ladder and not a ramp? It's because you climb a ladder rung by rung, step by step. And everyone's at a different rung, and that's fine. My wife and I are completely aligned on everything actually. But particularly Jewish religious practice.
MR: What about politically?
MG: Totally aligned.
I think it's important for a couple on things that are of importance to the couple.
MR: What about music?
MG: Well, I would say that I have a great and abiding appreciation for the King. Erica, like all sensible people, likes the King — but she doesn't wear an Elvis shirt to Shabbat dinner every week and she wasn't the parent who made sure that our children have seen Blue Hawaii, Paradise, Hawaiian Style, and Viva Las Vegas. Maybe that's a father's job. Or, perhaps, we can all grow in Elvis. After all, she did take the family to the Elvis American Diner when we were in Jerusalem — and agree to have an Elvis innovator at our elopement.
MR: What’s an “Elvis innovator”?
MG: Well...Erica and I eloped. I wanted no wedding at all, and explained my reasoning. She said, “Okay, but I'm a rabbi and I would like a Jewish ceremony with immediate family only.” I said that was good with me — but if we were to have any guests, then we would need an Elvis impersonator. She said, basically, “Okay, whatever.”
So I called my friend Loring Justice in Tennessee, who really wanted to come to the wedding. I had told him that he couldn't come because there would be no guests other than immediate family — but now things had changed. I told him he could come, but he would have to do so as an Elvis impersonator. He said that he wouldn't come as an Elvis impersonator, but as an "Elvis Innovator." And so he did. That wasn't his last act of Elvis Innovation. He returned as an Elvis Innovator at my parents’ 50th wedding anniversary, which was ten years later.
MR: Are you serious about all this?
MG: Absolutely. I love Elvis. We've been to Graceland twice. I would have gone more with the family, but Erica pointed out that we've been there twice.
MR: Why do you love Elvis?
MG: I love Elvis and I love Sinatra, really. The music, the persona, the embodiment of upbeat, enthusiastic Americanism.
MR: Early Elvis or later Elvis?
MG: Great question. On my last trip to Israel, I had my best cab ride ever. The driver knew everything — and I mean everything — about Elvis. He told me that he was born in 1959, and learned English by translating all of Elvis's lyrics into Hebrew because he wanted to know what The King was thinking and feeling. He played his favorite Elvis songs along the way — and I was so pleasantly surprised to hear some simply beautiful Elvis music I had never heard before. So I love early Elvis, later Elvis and the Elvis I have not heard.
You know Elvis was Jewish.
MR: They said his mom was…
MG: Right through the maternal line, uninterrupted. And when you go to Graceland, you'll see he was a very generous Jewish philanthropist.
MR: There’s Jewish stars on the mother's grave, right?
MG: On Gladys's grave…exactly. And there are canceled checks to the Memphis Jewish Community Center. And his early influences were Jewish.
MR: What'd you think about that movie that just came out?
MG: Terrific. Terrific. It was a terrific movie, and the proof it was a terrific movie is I listen to Elvis Radio whenever I can, and the Elvis radio people, they love it. And very rarely do purists love something about their thing, but the Elvis radio people love the movie.
MR: What’s the first Elvis song that comes to mind right now?
MG: “Hound Dog.” Because you brought up the movie, that's why. They did such a good version of that in the movie. I was actually just listening to the movie version of it. The movie adoptions were just terrific. The whole thing was great.
MR: So do you listen to Seriously Sinatra?
MG: Yeah.
MR: What's the first Frank Sinatra song that comes to mind right now?
MG: “The Summer Wind,” just for no good reason. But Sinatra has a beautiful song for any season.
This Is My Heaven
MR: Let me just ask you, do you believe in an afterlife?
MG: As a Jew, I don't think very much about it. As we talked about, I really only study the five books of Moses. Very often there's commentary about them, but I'm a peshat guy, and it's not in there. It's hard enough to know, and it's challenging enough and inspiring enough to really learn it, to try to figure out. It's just difficult enough to try to figure out how do you live well in this world. It's hard enough.
I don't think about it. I'm also a rationalist. I'm never going to figure it out, so why waste time trying?
Cigars and Wine
MR: You seem to have a huge amount of energy. Do you nap during the day? Do you meditate? Do you anything as a break from your day?
MG: So I write for a couple hours a day, and I find that write best when smoking a cigar.
MR: And what kind of cigars do you like?
MG: Right now I have the Aging Rooms here. I'm going to be smoking these later on. These are terrific.
MR: Do you drink before you write?
MG: No, certainly not.
MR: Why “certainly not”?
MG: I lost 60 pounds, so I try not to. I don't drink calories, anyway. But I would not drink even if that weren't my rule.
MR: So you don't drink at all, basically?
MG: On Pesach I won't have the four glass of wine, but I'll have a little bit of wine. And on Shabbat, I'll have a little bit of wine. But I don't drink calories and certainly wouldn't want to drink when I wrote or worked. No, it's not a part of my life. Maybe half a glass on Shabbat is my weekly consumption.
MR: Is it fair to say that your whole life revolves around Judaism in some way or another?
MG: Yes, I would say absolutely. I study the Torah every day and I try and I try. I try, but that's all I can do — is I try to live the Torah all day. It's a journey. As we said, it's a ladder.
Courtship
MR: Can you tell me the story of your courtship with your wife?
MG: It was very short. She came to a Shabbat dinner at my apartment on February 9th, 2007. Back in those days, I'd often have a guest speaker — a guest of honor. Whenever Michael Oren was in town, he would come and be the guest. Michael's been a great friend and really my guide to Israel for 20 years. I went to Israel for the first time because he invited me more than 20 years ago and he insisted. So Michael would come all the time, but that February 9th, Ken Mehlman was the guest of honor.
I remember thinking, " Okay, we have a reform rabbinical student and the head of the Republican Party speaking. How's this going to go?" And so Ken spoke. I don't remember what he said, but it was whatever was going on in February of 2007. And Erica, who I didn't know at all, turned to me and said, "I agree with everything he just said." And I'm like, "Wow, a beautiful rabbi who just agreed with everything Ken Mehlman said." And so we were engaged in June.
At the windmill in Jerusalem. So I proposed, down on one knee, and she accepts the ring and all that. And then at that moment, all these fireworks start going off behind us in the Old City. And I had no idea, but it was the 40th anniversary to the moment of the liberation of Jerusalem. And we were married in November.
MR: It sounds like you like to set people up. Do you have any advice for people trying to find their partner?
MG: Absolutely. First, don't think of them as a partner. It's too antiseptic a term. And like the [Lubavitcher] Rebbe, I think terms matter. Like at the hospital, he would say a “house of healing.” It's not a deadline, it's a due date.
All of the advice I would offer derives from the Torah. What’s the great courtship ritual to Torah? Well, it's Isaac and Rebecca…really Eleazar on behalf of Abraham for Isaac and Rebecca. And in the true theme of the Torah being our eternal guidebook, so what happens?
Well, Eleazar identifies two qualities in Rebecca. He identifies that she's physically beautiful, nothing to be ashamed of. He was very clear in the text. He identifies her as physically beautiful, and he identifies that she is extraordinarily generous and giving. She gets water for him and his camels, and does it herself. Estimates are that it would have taken like 25 trips with water to be sure that her guest, who she didn't know, was well cared for.
So she's instinctively and characteristically a very generous, giving person, and she's beautiful. Two characteristics, he said, "You're the woman for Isaac." That's it is. But there's no deal unless she accepts the proposal, and she got the full right, it's clear in the text, to either accept or reject the proposal. What does she care about? All she knows about Isaac are two things. One, that he's a very good provider, and two, that he has a great relationship with God. That's all she knows about him. He's a man of faith and he's a great provider. She says, "Done." So what can we learn? And it turns out to be the happiest marriage in the Torah. Not without its problems, they had a communications issue, but still the happiest marriage in the Torah.
So what can we learn from that, and what do we advise young people? Identify two characteristics, maybe three. You can do three. Identify the three characteristics that you want in a spouse. Be sure they're the right ones. When you find someone who hits them, marry him or marry her. That's it. There’s not going to be 20 characteristics, and the characteristics are not going to be, "Does she vacations in cold weather or warm weather?" Or, "Does she classical music or pop music?" Or, "Does she like to sleep at the window open or sleep with the window closed?" Identify three things that are genuinely important. One of them can be physical attraction, so two others, and then get married. So what would that imply? It would imply young marriages and quick courtships.
Israel and America
MR: Why not move to Israel?
MG: We go there as often as we can — and love everything about it, from the digs at Ir David to the life-saving work at United Hatzalah headquarters to the beaches and business in Tel Aviv to…countless other things from the prosaic to the spectacular and sometimes there the prosaic is the spectacular. Israel is a miracle and a delight. But our lives are in New York — and we really love America. The United States is such an awesome country — a land of freedom, opportunity, justice, and an insistent striving that should inspire everyone. Everyone here should be so grateful and appreciative for the blessings of this land. We should stand for — literally or metaphorically — the Pledge of Allegiance or the National Anthem all the time.
MR: When you think of America, who are the people or what are the things that typify it for you?
MG: We Jews have never had a friendship in our entire history like we have with Evangelical Christians now. In fact, it's a great privilege to be a participant in what I think is a world historical moment. This friendship is world historical. We have been waiting 4,000 years for friends we have today among Evangelical Christians. And to be able to be a part of this friendship is a great blessing. And I really mean blessing.
In the Book of Numbers, the gentile seer, Balaam, kept trying to curse the Jews. And his curse was, "You will be a people who lives alone." But Erica and I always say in our day, literally in our day, in the last 20 years, that curse has been lifted. We are no longer a people who dwells alone. You could have said that Balaam's curse stuck up until about the year 2000. You can't say right now about the Jews, "You're a people who lives alone." If someone said that to me, that's just incorrect. Erica and I have so many Evangelical friends, and they have institutional backing with thousands and thousands and millions of others who share this friendship. So it's just a great time to be a part of this really world historic, beautiful, and amazing friendship among Evangelicals and Jews and the heart of this right here in the US.