Interview with Lis Smith
Lis Smith is an American political strategist and writer.
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Contents
Max Raskin: I want to start with the stage fright that you mention in your new book. Do you still get it?
Lis Smith: Oh yeah, definitely I do. It's something that never really goes away. I got it out of the blue when I was 15 years old. I suspect a lot of people have a similar experience. It just hit me one day when I was playing violin in a New York state championship or something like that. I can't remember what it was. It just hit me out of the blue. And I still definitely get it before TV interviews, before doing public speaking. But I've sort of figured out you know how to deal with it.
MR: You mentioned beta blockers like propranolol. Do you have any other tips you have for people who have stage fright?
LS: Get really comfortable with the material that you're going to deliver. Not so comfortable that you're going through autopilot.
MR: Do you know the Band’s song “Stage Fright”?
LS: No, I don't know.
MR: That's a good song.
LS: What I would say is beta blockers are great for people because it cuts out the physical element of stage fright. And frankly, I don't even take those anymore. But I do recommend just being really, really familiar with the material that you're going to be discussing and the audience that you're addressing — whether it's a TV audience or an in-person audience. It always helps — I find — to lead with a little bit of humor and to loosen everyone up, including yourself.
MR: That's hilarious.
LS: Well…
I don't know if that's funny. But it does help sort of warm you up and warm up a crowd if you do use a little humor. Those are the tricks that I've learned over the years. But you never know. Sometimes you can be really, really comfortable, sometimes you can be really, really uncomfortable.
I think a lot of successful people do have stage fright and struggle with it, but probably don't talk about it as much publicly.
Hey Adams!
MR: What about staying healthy on the road? You mention an episode of shingles in the book. And it looks like you’re in a hotel room right now. Or did you hire the Hyatt’s interior decorator?
LS: I am coming to you live from the Hay-Adams in Washington, D.C.
MR: What’s your favorite hotel to stay at in Washington, D.C.?
LS: You know, I don't have one. I only stay here for politics, and I've stayed in probably every hotel here. And my trips are usually so brief.
I really like the Hay-Adams because of its location. I used to live in D.C., and yesterday was amazing because I had a CNN hit in the morning, and then I get back to my hotel, walk out, the White House is right there, and then I went and walked by all the monuments. I got to play tourist.
So the Hay-Adams is great because of its location. And it's great, especially if you do want to play tourist in D.C.
MR: Do you have a favorite food place that you have to hit when you're in D.C.?
LS: No. You know what? I know that this is like a horrible thing to say, but I am not a big foodie. Food is fine. I eat food. But it's just not my thing. As long as it's relatively healthy, as long as it's vegetarian, and as long as it can keep my energy level up — that's all I care about.
MR: How do you stay healthy on the road?
LS: So staying healthy is really hard, and I've struggled with that over the years. I've landed in the ER with a ruptured ovarian cyst on a campaign. I've gotten shingles. I had some sort of a TIA, which is some weird sort of brain thing. I ended up in the ER for that for a few days on a campaign. But it was unclear whether that was due to stress and exhaustion.
When you travel as much as I do, staying healthy is so, so hard. The number one thing is I just drink massive, massive, massive amounts of water.
MR: But don't you have to pee a lot? You mentioned in the book peeing a lot.
LS: Well, I mean sure, but being hydrated I think is the number one thing for energy level, for mental clarity, for…
MR: …bathroom use?
LS: Well, you're obsessed with bathroom use! I'm just telling you what keeps me healthy.
I always say this to candidates, too, because I think when you get dehydrated, it affects you not only physically, but it does affect your mental clarity. Not to go all Tom Brady on you, but hydration is really, really important.
I always travel with Zicam so that if I ever feel like the tickle of a cold coming on, I take that. And that usually works miracles.
Consider the Oyster
MR: And are you a vegetarian?
LS: Yes. I'm technically an oyster-tarian. I eat oysters as well.
MR: But what about the oysters? Did you ever read “Consider the Lobster” by David Foster Wallace?
LS: No.
MR: It's not good, so you don't have to read it. It’s an article he wrote for Gourmet magazine about whether lobsters are people too.
LS: And it's non-fiction?
MR: Yeah.
LS: I don't know. I do not eat lobsters. But I don't think they are people either.
MR: Of all the candidates that you've worked with, who do you think was in the best shape or took care of themselves the best?
LS: Martin O'Malley, the former governor of Maryland. He keeps himself in amazing physical shape. He works out a lot. He eats healthy. His physique became sort of a joke during the 2016 campaign because people would post all these photos of him at polar bear swims with his 12 pack, which is not exactly something you usually see among politicians and certainly not among presidential candidates. But he was definitely the healthiest.
MR: Oh, then I might as well ask this question Rob wanted me to ask here because I think Rob’s one of the great guys of all time…
LS: Yeah. I love him.
MR: …would you rather battle a Chris Christie-sized duck or a hundred duck-sized Chris Christies?
LS: A hundred duck-sized Chris Christies because I think vanquishing each of them would be so satisfying.
MR: What kind of luggage do you use?
LS: I use a few different types. I have a Tumi leather one that's handheld and a Tumi carry-on roller bag. But for bigger trips, I did buy an Away suitcase. I'm always skeptical of things that become super trendy and that you get a million ads for on Instagram, but the Away bag is great. It's great at saving space. I love the way it's designed. And I'm a true convert after being a definite skeptic.
MR: Do you have a bag packed at all times?
LS: No, I'm not a drug dealer.
MR: But you have a toiletry bag packed?
LS: A bag packed at all times with five passports and $10,000 in cash? No, I do not.
Will Comply
MR: What were your top three most-played Spotify songs last year?
LS: I feel like it was weird. I definitely had Mozart in there because I was writing a book.
MR: And no cheating. You have to say your top three.
LS: I know. And I'm not proud of this. It’s “Save Your Tears” by The Weeknd, “Seven Summers” by Morgan Wallen, and “Montero” by Lil Nas X.
MR: Do you like Wilco? You mentioned in the book that you used to see Wilco.
LS: I love Wilco. I've seen them live a bunch of times. When I was in college, I did a term abroad in New Zealand, and I hung out with them backstage and they were really, really cool guys.
I love them and I love, love, love their new album. It is probably the album that I listen to the most right now. And I'm so glad that they're back. I don't know whether I like it because it's really good or because it makes me feel a little nostalgic, but I really love their new album.
MR: Let me ask you about classical music. Do you still play violin at all?
LS: So I still have my violin. I have a nice violin. I picked it up a few times during the pandemic. I need to get it a little bit tuned up by a professional. The bridge and the bow are a little bit dodgy.
MR: If someone were to put a gun to your head and said you have to play something right now from memory, what would you play?
LS: “Meditation” from Thaïs. Easily, easily my number one favorite piece I've ever played. I also like the Albinoni “Adagio in G Minor.”
MR: What’s your screen time on your phone each week? Do you think you’ll be happy or horrified?
LS: It depends. Right now, it's probably going to be high. I do a lot of checking of Twitter with my book out because when you're trying to sell a book, you try to amplify all the content that's out there. And so I've done a lot of interviews. But also, when people tweet nice things about it, I try to amplify it.
So it says my daily average is 7 hours and 15 minutes.
MR: How do you feel about that number?
LS: Okay. Let's see. If I'm awake for 18 hours a day, I would like it to be less. And I think generally it would be less. But the reality is that screen time isn't just being on Twitter or being on Instagram.
MR: It’s more texting friends?
LS: That's how I get my news. The only newspaper I get delivered in paper form is the New York Post. So I read all of my news on my iPhone.
MR: You know who said that to me? Tucker Carlson. Everything he gets, he gets filtered through text messages.
LS: I get it through text messages too. Twitter is probably the number one way I get my news.
MR: Do you respond to everyone who texts you?
LS: No. My text messages are like a blood bath. I have 323 unread text messages right now.
Mrs. PACman
MR: Which candidate you’ve worked for is the best at asking for money?
LS: Terry McAuliffe was the best — he is known for being a really good fundraiser.
MR: What’s the best way to ask someone for money?
LS: Get to the point and be confident. You've got to make a strong sale and close it quickly. When a donor gets a call from a Terry McAuliffe — or any candidate — they don't need to be asked every question about their dog or daughter or this or that. They know that the candidate really doesn't care. They just want to hear who you are, why you can win, and why they should invest in you — and boom, that's it. Short and sweet and confident, that's what my advice is.
MR: Do you ever ask people for money?
LS: I have. I did a super PAC for Andrew Yang.
MR: You raised like $3.5 million?
LS: Yeah, yeah. That was the first time I ever raised money. It was crazy because for a super PAC, you're asking people for $250,000 at a time, $500,000 at a time.
In some ways, asking for $250,000 was easier for me than when I'd tried in the past to phone bank for candidates and ask for a hundred dollars because it seems like such an absurd, large, impersonal number, you know?
MR: Definitely; that’s how it is with investment managers. Much easier to talk about a billion dollars than $500,000.
LS: So why do you think that is? I'm curious. Because I totally agree with that. And I bet most people would say that we sound completely out of touch.
MR: If you want a snotty answer, I guess you'd say it's the decreasing marginal utility of money. Actually, if you want a really snotty answer, it’d be the law of the satiation of wants. To someone who makes $70,000 a year, a $1,000 is one whatever-th and that money has a real impact on purchases. But to an institution that has $10 billion, asking them for $50 million is proportionally less.
LS: Right, I agree with that. And there was something weird. When I worked on Claire McCaskill's campaign in 2006, we would do these evenings where they would have non-finance staff — people like me — do calls to small dollar donors. And I don't know, I was just never super comfortable asking people for money.
MR: Does anyone ever tell you that you remind them of Shannon McGahn?
LS: No. Is this a good thing?
MR: Yeah, she's just the coolest. The reason she's the coolest is because I think that there's not a lot of people in D.C. or in politics who are frank and open.
LS: That's cool. Introduce me to her. I'd love to meet her.
MR: Are you worried about getting burned by your friends?
LS: What do you mean? Define friends. Burned by what friends?
MR: Let's say you text a picture of yourself shotgunning a beer or something.
LS: Am I afraid that they are going to give it to the New York Post?
MR: Yes.
LS: I guess that's always a possibility in this new world. But I have pretty good friends and I have a very close-knit group of friends who I trust. One thing that my experiences have taught me is how important it is to have a really close-knit group of friends that you trust with your life, you trust with all your secrets.
MR: Who's your best friend?
LS: You can't ask me that. That's going to just create drama in my friend group. But I would just say I have a tie for four best friends.
Papophile
MR: Do you pray?
LS: I don't. Well, I prayed…when my father was passing away, when he was in a coma there, a priest would come to his hospital room, and I would pray then, and at his funeral and all that. But otherwise, I don't pray. I was christened and raised in an Episcopal family, but I can't say that I'm a particularly religious person. I'm reading currently a book by C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity.
A lot of my favorite authors are very Catholic authors. And I'm fascinated by the Catholic faith.
MR: Have you ever flirted with becoming a conservative?
LS: No. Honestly, it's like I came out of the womb a Democrat. Like anyone, I get frustrated with my party. But I've never, ever considered switching parties, flirting with the right, whatever you want to call it.
MR: Who on the Right do you think is your bizarro Lis Smith — the alternate universe version of you?
LS: I would say I always considered Tim Miller sort of to be my evil twin, even though I already have a twin brother. He and I worked against each other in 2012. I was the director of rapid response for Barack Obama and Tim was deputy communications director at the RNC.
He and I would go at it like cats and dogs on Twitter. And then we ended up becoming BFFs. And it's so funny because his book came out two weeks before mine. And during the writing process, he and I commiserated, we cried to each other, we expressed all our anxieties, we shared the pieces of writing we were most excited about. So I would say Tim is probably my twin. But he's now a Never Trumper, so I don't know if he technically counts as a Republican.
Good Time with Bill Maher
MR: Do you get nervous before you go on Bill Maher?
LS: Yeah, I get nervous. Honestly, you get a little nervous before you go on really any TV show. I think it would be weird not to get nervous. Bill Maher takes conversations in directions that your average cable news host doesn't, so you really have to be on your game.
But I love doing his show. It's my favorite show to do for a couple reasons. One is he gives you time to speak. It's not like a cable news hit where you literally get 60 seconds of speaking time, and that's it, done. On Bill Maher, you get a lot of time to make points.
And it's just a more free flowing, less talking-pointy conversation. Obviously talking points are something I'm fairly good at. But when I'm on TV, especially if I'm unaffiliated and not working for someone, I do want to be able to speak my mind. And I like that Bill Maher doesn't put up with like people who just go on there and give canned responses.
MR: Where is your accent from?
LS: I'm from Bronxville, New York, and my mom is from New York, but my dad is from North Carolina. People growing up always said I had a weird accent because my dad had a very thick Southern accent. My mom speaks very fast, like me. And I feel like I got some bizarro combination of them that people can't ever really place. So I don't even know how to describe it.
MR: Was there anything in the book that you really struggled about whether to put in?
LS: The Andrew Cuomo chapters were the most difficult things for me to write. Because one, the episode was so fresh in my mind, and it was so dramatic that it took me a while to really process everything that had happened. Whereas, with everything else, I had so much time over the years to reflect on it, get perspective on it. With the Cuomo chapters, I made sure I called other people, a few of the other people who were involved that I really trusted. We would talk for hours on the phone just to go through chain of events, all of that, and really how we were processing it and how we felt about it.
Fo–net–ick
MR: How long did it take you to pronounce Buttigieg?
LS: Once I saw the phonetic spelling, that was it. And sometimes I don't pronounce it perfectly. Because it's technically, it's more like “Buttigieg.” But if I'm tired, if it's been a long day, I'm just going to say “Buttigieg,” you know?
MR: What was it like educating people about that?
LS: You know what? It was a thing that we turned to our advantage. This is something that smart campaigns should do — take something that you think is a liability and turn it into a strength.
I remember the first time I got an email about Pete, it was in December 2016, and someone said, "Oh, you should meet this guy. Do you want to meet with him?" And my first response to the email was, "Tough name."
I was like, "How does someone get elected with the name Buttigieg?" So on the campaign tour, we made it a thing where we sold t-shirts that had the phonetic spelling: boot, edge, edge. And at all of his public events at his rallies, we would have volunteers up on stage with boot, spelled out B-O-O-T and then edge, edge, and leading “boot-edge-edge” chants. So it became a thing.
It was memorable because it was such a memorable last name. It ended up becoming a thing in its own where late night shows would do compilations of cable news hosts struggling to pronounce his name. Any amplification of his name is a good thing from my perspective.
MR: You used that term amplification a couple times. When you're promoting your book, you obviously want to amplify your book as much as possible. Who do you really want to go on that you haven't gone on yet?
LS: So I've looked at who really, really moves the numbers, and Joe Rogan, man…that guy. When my book was first announced, it jumped to the head of a bunch of lists, but then I would see other people on the list and I checked, "Okay, why are all four of their books in the top 10? Not even just a more recent book." And then I realized that they'd just been on Rogan a couple days ago. So I know people have their issues with Rogan, but I listen to his show. I love listening to him interview athletes and people in the entertainment industry. But Rogan, no question.
MR: I'll ask you this then. Do you pick your nose?
LS: No.
MR: Okay.
LS: Why?
MR: Because I ask that to people. Do you floss?
LS: Yes. Regularly.
MR: Every day?
LS: Every day.
MR: Are you obsessive about it?
LS: I'm not obsessive about it, I just do it every day.
MR: What's the place you order out from most in New York City?
LS: Tamarind – it’s Indian.
MR: And what do you get from there?
LS: I get the topli na paneer, which is like paneer tandoori, I get the saag paneer, and baingan bharta.
MR: What kind of toothbrush do you have? Do you have a mechanical or electric?
LS: Just a normal one. I have so many things in my life that require chargers, I don't have the capacity for one more. I've got too many skincare devices, computers, phones.
MR: How do you keep track of your to-dos, your productivity?
LS: I don't. I just do it in my head. I'm not the most organized of people. I sometimes write out to-do lists, but I usually just do it from my head, which is why sometimes I miss things. But organization, I would say, is not my strong suit.
MR: And last thing for Rob – why do you think Rob is such a good guy?
LS: Because he is smart. He is loyal. He is warm. He is someone who, even when he is really busy, if you really need him for something, will drop everything to help you out. And he’s someone who is beloved by Democrats, Republicans, and members of the media. And that is not an easy thing to achieve.