Interview with Josh Griffiths
Josh Griffiths is a black belt in Brazilian Jiujitsu and a Pan-American champion. He is the owner and head instructor of Clockwork Jiu Jitsu in New York City.
Ashtanga A Day Keeps The Doctah Away
Contents
Max Raskin: I’m going to start with the obvious question you ask someone who teaches jiujitsu – what kind of yoga do you do?
Josh Griffiths: Ashtanga yoga.
MR: And how long have you been doing it?
JG: For about six years now.
MR: And how long have you been doing jiujitsu?
JG: I’ve been doing jiujitsu for 20 years.
MR: Why did you start yoga relatively recently?
JG: When I was like 34, I started getting these spasms in my hip when I would just be standing. I talked to a friend, and he’s an older guy who’s a professional rugby player and jiujitsu guy, and he says, “You gotta slow down with the jiujitsu.” I was training jiujitsu like 13 times a week – twice a day during the week, and then once on Saturday, and then I was doing strength and conditioning. He said I need to do something that's more restorative…blah blah. I didn’t really give it a lot of credence. And then I actually went to a Tony Robbins event. Anytime you get away from your day-to-day routine and have time to reflect on your life, you can make these huge steps forward. One of mine was that I was running it a little too hard, and I don’t have to do it that hard. Let's find something else. That’s when I started doing yoga.
I started at the gym – I was going to Equinox at the time. And then after about a year and change I took my first Ashtanga class. It's not really taught the same way regular yoga is – it’s more like an open room and everyone has their own expression of this baseline sequence.
MR: Where do you go in New York City?
JG: I was going to Ashtanga Yoga Shala NYC, but my teacher, Guy Donahaye, has since closed it. One of his assistants just opened on Bowery – Jeffrey Villanueva.
MR: Do you feel it’s helped your jiujitsu?
JG: I think it’s helped every aspect of my life.
MR: Is it meditative?
JG: The same way jiujitsu is meditative and becomes more meditative once you understand your operational framework. You do the same thing every day until your teacher increases your practice by giving you a new posture or new pose. So you're running through the same postures day after day. It really allows you to get in there and understand your body in a very different way than I ever could through exercise, just because the chaos isn't there.
MR: And you have this at Clockwork.
JG: Yes, we have an intro class once a week. This is something I clearly believe in, and I've dedicated a lot of time to it. But I think it's something people have to try in a comfortable environment – you already go there all the time, you tried Ashtanga through there.
MR: I did.
Do you meditate separately?
JG: I don’t meditate separately. There are different pranayamas I do – they’re yogic breathing exercises. One’s called nadi shodhana – I’m not too good at Sanskrit.
MR: Do you know about Wim Hof breathing?
JG: I do. I don’t know a lot about Wim Hof, but I believe there’s tremendous merit in breathwork. To the extent you’re willing to dedicate yourself to it, there’s a lot of value.
MR: I tried getting into it, but then I got nervous because I didn’t want to screw around with my breathing.
Eat Shoots and Be Healthy
MR: When do you wake up in the morning?
JG: Between 4:45 and 5:15 if I sleep in.
MR: Were you always a morning person?
JG: I wasn't always a morning person. This kind of all aligned with me getting more dedicated to yoga around 2014. I just found by waking up early, I was able to control the tone of my day. Yoga became the practice that I like to start my day with.
MR: And when do you go to sleep?
JG: As early as I can. If I'm lucky on the weekend, sometimes as early as like 8:30.
MR: Wow. Do you fall asleep right away?
JG: Yeah. People ask me how I wake up so early. Just wake up early – just do it and then you’ll be tired – you’ll go to bed early.
MR: Do you dream?
JG: I don't. I'm not a big dream person. It's abnormal for me to have dreams – or I should say to recall my dreams.
MR: There’s something about jiujitsu where everyone’s big on life hacks with their health and fitness. They are the kind of people who go online to forums and Reddit.
Two questions: Who do you get your advice from in life, and where online do you find yourself gravitating to?
JG: I have an acupuncture guy – I think he’s also a shaman now. I ask him about dietary stuff and more spiritual stuff, and he helps me with that a lot. My yoga teacher Guy Donahaye helped me a lot with certain physical elements. Another guy I like a lot is called Paul Chek. He has an amazing book from the 90s called How to Eat, Move and Be Healthy. It’s from the 90s but it’s more current than a lot of people writing now. I used to do a lot of reading on strength training. I was into bodybuilding when I was much younger – I was a much larger person at that time.
But I read I'm a big reader. I listened to a lot of audiobooks. I’m not a big online person.
MR: Are you a Joe Rogan fan?
JG: He's really good when he has like a certain type of guest. I love that Joe Rogan is such an advocate for jiujitsu and yoga. I believe both those things are amazing, and I don't see a lot of peoples’ lives not improving dramatically to the extent they're willing to dedicate themselves to either practice. For him to advocate those to such a large audience, I have to congratulate him on that.
MR: Is there an interview of his that you find yourself coming back to?
JG: The first time he interviewed David Lee Roth. That’s a dude who was the biggest rock star in the world, and then just went on to do whatever he thought was interesting. He was an EMT in New York City for a period, because that’s what he wanted to do.
MR: What's the weirdest job you've ever had?
JG: I was a sophomore in high school, and I worked on the giant slide at the Del Mar County Fair in San Diego. That was a weird job.
MR: What would it surprise people that you’re into?
JG: I used to watch America’s Got Talent a lot.
Gear
MR: What about eating – what’s your diet look like generally?
JG: My diet is pretty regimented. I wake up, have a coffee and a large water.
MR: What kind of coffee and how do you drink your water?
JG: I drink my water in a mason jar like this [shows mason jar with water in it].
MR: How many do you drink a day?
JG: I'll drink like 10 of these a day.
MR: Do you put ice in it?
JG: I don’t.
MR: Do you put any flavorings?
JG: No.
MR: What kind of coffee?
JG: We use that Lavazza.
MR: Are you a big coffee snob or anything?
JG: No – I try and find a nice medium between cost and quality.
MR: Then what will you eat?
JG: Then I’ll do the yoga practice, and then around like 9:00 I’ll have a protein smoothie.
MR: What’s in it?
JG: Chlorella, spirulina, some vegan protein.
MR: What kind of blender do you use?
JG: A Vitamix. There’s a few appliances I believe in a lot. I like the Breville Barista Express. For the price point it makes the best espresso.
I also have oatmeal every morning and we use a Zojirushi rice cooker. I set it the night before on a timer so it’s ready at the same time.
MR: What kind of oatmeal?
JG: Irish steel cut. I buy five-pound bags of it.
MR: What do you put on it?
JG: I always put a little bit of salt, cinnamon, pumpkin seeds, and then some cranberries.
MR: You put salt on your oatmeal?
JG: Yeah, I think especially in the summer in New York, a lot of people are dehydrated all the time, and part of it is they don't take in enough salt. There’s a salt pack I'll take after yoga and after jiujitsu. But I find it rehydrates you faster.
MR: So that’s breakfast.
JG: Then I’ll probably have a fruit or some almonds right before I train at noon. Then after I train or teach at noon, I'll have some eggs, avocado, and spinach.
MR: Like an omelet?
JG: I like to put it in like a tortilla in a breakfast burrito kind of vibe.
MR: Do you snack during the day?
JG: A little, not a lot. Sometimes I'll just grab a protein bar. Other times a piece of fruit and nuts. Sometimes bread with some almond butter or peanut butter and a little bit of honey.
MR: What about for dinner?
JG: I'd say that's where the most variance is. Tonight I'm gonna make a vegan saag paneer.
MR: Are you vegan?
JG: My wife’s vegan.
MR: So you eat meat?
JG: I try and have red meat once a week and fish once a week.
MR: But not more?
JG: If it happens, it happens. But that's like my minimum. I live a pretty physical life and I just feel a lot more energetic when I'm able to have it.
MR: What are your favorite vegan and non-vegan restaurants in New York?
JG: The Smile, Frank, Emilio’s Ballato, Regina’s Grocery, Spicy Moon, and Cocoron.
MR: Cocoron isn’t vegan.
JG: They have vegan dishes.
Jiujitsugenarian
MR: How long do you think you can do jiujitsu for?
JG: I have students who are in their late 60s who are still training pretty regularly.
MR: Do you want to be doing it in your late 60s?
JG: I don’t know – I think about that a lot. I'd like to have the optionality. That’s one of the reasons I made this big shift to yoga in terms of how I allocate my physical time.
MR: Is there anything you’re obsessive or particular about?
JG: I'm fairly particular about certain aesthetics. I really don't like it when people wear the jiujitsu jacket with shorts. That's more like an obsessive-compulsive thing.
MR: Are you a little OCD?
JG: I’d say I’m very OCD. I've had the same breakfast for the last 25 years. I don't think I've had a lot of weeks where I haven't done jiujitsu for at least seven hours.
MR: What are some of the lessons of jiujitsu?
JG: I think they're pretty vast. One is just like the ability to learn. My teacher, Kenny Florian always says, it's not about learning jiujitsu, it’s about learning how to learn jiujitsu. The real lesson is if you can put in enough time to be very competent at this very hard thing that you could put in time at just about anything and be good at it.
MR: I interviewed a psychologist [Barbara Tversky] who talked about the key to keeping your brain going is new activities – that’s the key to brain plasticity. And I clerked for a judge who is going to be going till she’s 100 because every day new cases and situations come up.
What’s the last hobby you’ve taken up?
JG: I took up cooking during the pandemic. I really enjoy cooking – I try and do it two times a week.
MR: Where did you learn?
JG: The Internet, which isn’t great for arguing with strangers but an amazing wealth of how-to knowledge.
A Business, Man
MR: Do you have any cool apps on your phone that you use that most people wouldn’t know?
JG: I have one that helps me a lot for my job. It's called TextExpander. It allows you to have an additional keyboard with buttons that are responses to common questions. Like people always ask how much jiujitsu costs. I have a button and it hits that’s back with preset answers.
MR: Are you a good businessman?
JG: I think I’m okay.
MR: Do you have visions of expanding this? Or are you just trying to sustain yourself to live a nice life.
JG: For me, the desire to expand this business would be more just to help more people. I think jiujitsu is really an amazing catalyst for change in peoples’ lives, and I get to see tremendous growth in people. That’s my main reason for wanting to have more students.
MR: The business sounds secondary to the joy it brings you.
JG: I’m pretty confident I could do a lot better financially doing something other than jiujitsu.
MR: Of those self-help or psychology people who do you like?
JG: I like Jim Rohn a lot. He was Tony Robbins’ mentor – I even like the way he talks.
MR: Do you have a religious practice?
JG: I don’t have a religious practice. One of the ways I define spirituality is like how something makes me feel. I find anything that uplifts my spirit – I throw that in the bag. I find that jiujitsu is very spiritual for me.
MR: Do you believe in God?
JG: I definitely believe in a higher power.
MR: Do you believe in an afterlife?
JG: I don’t know. I’m open to the idea, and I certainly don’t think I know.
Blue Period
MR: What’s the deal with different color gis. What color gi do you like the most?
JG: I’ve have periods in my life – I had a period where I only wore blue. More recently I’ve been wearing white, but I think I’m going to go to blue again.
MR: Do you watch a lot of TV?
JG: I watch almost no TV. We got rid of TV a while ago.
MR: What about movies?
JG: My son is four and he loves documentaries, so I watch documentaries with him. I just watched one on the evolution of the great white shark.
MR: So you have a TV?
JG: We have a projector that we set up to a laptop.
MR: Are you going to suggest either of your kids do martial arts?
JG: I’d love for both my kids – and to the extent we have more kids – to do jiujitsu, but I’m not going to force it on them. Jiujitsu is certainly the kind of thing that if you really don't want to do it, it’s fairly tortuous.
MR: I’ve only been doing it for about a year now and it’s changed my life. You said something great to me once about the number of strangers you have to get close to throughout the year.
JG: Think about the number of strangers you physically touch throughout the year and how small that is. That makes it inherently uncomfortable, and we get these huge adrenaline dumps when we’re put in violent situations. One of the main benefits of jiujitsu from a self-defense perspective is that those dumps don’t happen in the same way. You get clear-headed and mindful in moments where we need self-defense.
MR: There’s something primal about that and you feel more like a human being and less like a cog.
JG: I think so. Especially with kids.
We have a kids program. Kids aren’t allowed to touch each other in school, and Covid exacerbates that situation. So to have a place where kids can wrestle, roughhouse, or whatever you want to call that – it’s really positive. I think it’s really positive for people to have physical outlets that are demanding.
MR: Do you listen to music when you practice?
JG: We do put music on occasionally. I like reggae – I think reggae is a good vibe for jiujitsu. Sometimes people listen to really aggro music. I don’t think that’s the right energy. I think LCD Soundsystem is one of my favorite things to roll too. Santigold. Stuff that is upbeat but poppy and accessible.
Guardian Angel
MR: Are you east coast or west coast?
JG: I was born in San Diego. I lived in New Jersey for the ages of 14, 15, and 16. I finished high school in San Diego. And then I went to college at Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken.
MR: But are you an east coast or a west coast person?
JG: I’m an east coast person who was born in California. I've been on the east coast since 1998. This is where I feel like I did most of my personal growth. I love New York.
MR: Have you ever gotten into a fight in New York?
JG: No comment.
MR: Do you ever feel unsafe in New York?
JG: I never feel unsafe, but more so now than ever before, I’ll see things in New York that I wish my wife and two kids didn’t have to see. Like that dude with his piece out or the dude with the needle in his arm.
MR: But you feel like you could handle yourself?
JG: I think the vast majority of physical confrontations are very avoidable – most fights are mutually agreed upon. And to the extent that there's a crime against somebody – one of the things I say about self-defense is you don’t have to be the fastest antelope to get away from the lion – you just can’t be the slowest.
If you stand on a corner, good luck seeing less than nine out of ten people walk by without staring at their phone or with headphones in or just even being moderately aware of their surroundings. Imagine your job is to mug people. It’s very easy to see who you would try to mug. Just don’t be that person.
MR: Do you recommend jiujitsu for self-defense?
JG: I think jiujitsu is one of the best things you can do for self-defense. As we were talking about earlier, people are so not used to physical contact that most people freak out. Somebody grabs your wrists, they grab your shirt, grab your jacket, they grab your purse, and you just have a huge adrenaline dump and you’re exhausted, and you can’t breathe. By doing jiujitsu you're going to totally overcome that in a period of a few months. You get pretty used to physical contact and proximity. You’re also going to be more physical. I think jiujitsu is amazing for self-defense.
MR: Do you think you even need to study it as self-defense or just by doing it, you'll become more aware?
JG: I think by doing it you become far more competent in defending yourself than someone who does self-defense techniques.
MR: What do you think about krav maga?
JG: I don’t know a lot about it. I don’t think about krav maga very often.
MR: Do you have hobbies you’ve been wanting to take on?
JG: Not really, not right now.
MR: Was yoga the last real change in your life?
JG: Meeting my wife was huge.
MR: Where did you meet?
JG: We met at the club on a Tuesday.
MR: What club?
JG: It was called SL in the Meatpacking District.
Help Yourself
MR: Do you go to therapy?
JG: I don’t.
MR: Did you ever?
JG: I never did.
MR: Why not?
JG: I don’t know.
MR: Because you do jiujitsu.
JG: Maybe. I think a lot of these things I do are very therapeutic. I try and read a lot. I’ve read a lot of self-improvement and self-help books.
MR: Do you ever have to be a therapist to people because you’re a community leader?
JG: Yeah, I talk to people about stuff about their lives. And to the extent I have insights I’ll try and share those.
MR: Do a lot of people come to you with questions?
JG: Yeah, definitely.
MR: Do you floss?
JG: Of course. You think I’m a neanderthal and don’t floss?
MR: Some people don’t floss.
JG: That’s shocking. It’s such an easy thing to do to dramatically improve your oral hygiene.
MR: Is there anything else you recommend to people that’s like low-hanging life advice?
JG: They should wake up early and go to bed early. People should watch less Netflix. I think people spend the vast majority of the hours between 8:00pm and 1:00 am just watching stupid shit on Netflix or trying to find stupid shit to watch on Netflix.
MR: Do you use mouthwash?
JG: No, we have a Waterpik – my mom gave us that – it’s good.
MR: What separates jiujitsu from other martial arts?
JG: I think one thing that separates jiujitsu is that it’s not a striking martial art, which allows you to train at a very intense level without injuring your training partners. Whereas with striking, that's not really an option.
MR: You talk a lot about jiujitsu as a change agent and catalyst for change – how did jiujitsu change your life? What were you like before and after and how much of that change was attributable to jiujitsu itself?
JG: One thing that changed a lot is I became a much less judgmental person because of jiujitsu. In jiujitsu, there's one primary goal, which is to submit your opponent. But you very quickly see there's all these different paths to get there. I used to be fairly critical of people that had a path I didn't quite agree with. Jiujitsu has one goal, but in life everyone wants to do something different. So it’s pretty silly to be critical of the way people are handling their lives. Somebody maybe just wants to own ten cats – that’s their goal for life. It gave me a lot more empathy.
MR: Were you ever a bully?
JG: No I don’t think so.
MR: Were you ever bullied?
JG: Nothing noteworthy.
MR: Were you popular in high school?
JG: Not hugely popular.
MR: But you weren’t unpopular?
JG: I don't think I was unpopular.
One of the Funniest Things I’ve Ever Heard Someone Say
MR: Do you drink at all?
JG: No.
MR: No wine? No nothing?
JG: No. One of my grandfather’s good friends – Danny McGeehan– he comes up to me at this family party and asks if I wanted I drink. I told him I didn’t drink, and he said, “Well if you’re comfortable in these kind of social situations without drinking, God bless you. Because I'm gonna go get a vodka.”
MR: You said one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard someone say. How did that go?
JG: I was doing a mortgage. There was an older Jewish man, and we were about to sign the papers. He pointed at me and said, “Jewish.” Like it was a question, but it was just a word.
I said, “My father’s not.” My mother’s not either, but he didn’t have to know that.