Interview with John Peña
Contents
John Peña is the owner of Gym NYC. He is a New Yorker.
“There a lot of things that are coming back…”
Max Raskin: I want to ask you about New York. What were your favorite restaurants growing up?
John Peña: My favorite place to go as a kid was probably my dad's luncheonette, but I’m going to put that to the side. Besides that, it was probably a Chino-Cubano restaurant called the Apollo on Delancey Street. These Chinese-Cuban guys would tell you what you should eat, and then they would throw the food at you. It was a mix of the best Latin food and the best Chinese food – you’d order pork fried rice with sweet plantains. The food was fantastic, the service was horrible – as in a lot of good places in New York. It was about a block away from Ratner’s which was also famous for good food and terrible service.
MR: Where did you grow up exactly?
JP: I grew up on what's now called the Lower East Side, but more towards Little Italy. It was a very eclectic mix. My dad's luncheonette was on 33 Bleecker and our neighbors were Hasidic Jews who made boxes. There were obviously Chinese people, and of course the Italians had been there the longest and resented all of us for being there.
MR: And your family is from?
JP: The Dominican Republic.
MR: Both parents?
JP: Both parents, yeah.
MR: Was there a big Dominican community there?
JP: Sure. By the time I was seven or eight it had grown. My building was interesting in that it was like a small town where everybody was Dominican. We would walk into other peoples’ apartments – there were parties, and the doors would just be open – and if you needed a cup of sugar or a cup of rice, you could just walk over to the neighbors.
It was an interesting time because there was a lot of poverty in New York. You had people with families on the streets asking for money – not like today – people who needed it for food. Social services weren't that great back then. There was not a lot of money in New York in the 70s, and the city was really coming apart. The infrastructure was terrible.
MR: When were you born?
JP: I was born in ‘67.
MR: Who was the mayor that you think of as the mayor?
JP: It was Koch, for sure. He had the personality. He was New York – he really was. He also had that sense of humor.
I liked him as a person. I didn't like his politics.
MR: What about the subway – did you take the subway a lot as a kid?
JP: That was my only form of transportation. My parents didn't have a car.
MR: Was it dangerous?
JP: It was always an adventure . . . some days more than others. I had plenty of stories of people attempting to rob me. I saw a girl get raped. I kicked a rat off a train in the West Fourth Street station. I saw junkies having sex on the B train. You never knew what was gonna happen when you got on the subway – sort of like what's happening right now. There's a lot of things that are coming back.
Dumbwaiter and Dumb Waiters
MR: Where would you get your bagel?
JP: So the bagel was interesting because we had Yonah Schimmel's on Houston Street. They weren't really known for their bagels, they were known for their blintzes, but they had really great bagels. I would say that was probably the go-to bagel place for me.
MR: How do you take your bagel?
JP: Personally, I like a plain bagel with cream cheese. Not toasted because it has to be fresh, right?
MR: Where do you get your bagel today?
JP: I still go to Yonah Schimmel’s. It’s still there, thank God. Nothing’s changed – the same dumbwaiter and the same dumb waiters.
MR: What about coffee – where do you get your coffee?
JP: I used to just go to a diner and get a regular cup of coffee. And then Starbucks started taking over and it became a $6 or $7 affair to get a cup of coffee, which is ridiculous. I started making my own. As most New Yorkers I love Bustelo.
MR: How do you make your coffee today?
JP: Stovetop.
MR: Do you grind your own beans?
JP: Yeah, I grind my own beans, but I'm not necessarily a coffee snob.
MR: How do you take it?
JP: I take it black.
MR: Where would you go for a New York slice, not Neapolitan or anything?
JP: We probably had a pizzeria on every other corner back then, and everybody had good pizzas. There was Figaro’s on Broadway, there was Spring Street Pizza.
MR: Where do you go now?
JP: Lombardi's.
MR: But that’s sit-down – where do you go if you just need a slice?
JP: I’m probably not the person to ask that anymore because I feel like that part of New York is passed for me. That was a food for youth – when you were poor you could get a slice for 75 cents. It’s funny what’s happened in New York. The New York slice was the king of pizza. You could go anywhere from Brooklyn to Queens to Manhattan, and it was the same deal, and it was all good. Now you have 99 cent pizza, which is garbage. And then you have the more expensive places that will sell you a nice whole pizza.
That part of New York is pretty dead – the slice pizza place is pretty dead.
Espresso with Castellano and Arm-wrestling the Hells Angels
MR: I want to ask about Italian food. Would you go to Little Italy?
JP: Back then there was a place called Grotta Azzurra, there was Umbertos, there was Benito’s One.
MR: Is there a dish from your memory?
JP: Sure – linguini with clam sauce from Umbertos, which was also very famous for killing mobsters at the counter.
I used to go to Umbertos when I was 14 or 15. I'd be there at two in the morning, having linguini with clam sauce because I worked at Caffe Roma as a counter guy. I would serve espresso to people like Paul Castellano. I remember being 14 and Castellano came in. He would not pay of course, but he would leave you a $20 tip. When you're 13 back in 1982, that was a lot of money.
That was the way that neighborhood was back then. There was no need for police. The mob pretty much controlled the area, and it was really a safe community if you lived there.
MR: Did your dad ever have to pay protection money?
JP: My dad never paid. Interesting story, though, his biggest problem was he had to hang an Italian flag and he refused to, and they broke his windows. And on the third time he put up a Dominican flag. They thought he was crazy, but he had a lot of friends that were Hells Angels because he would arm wrestle them. Their clubhouse was a few blocks away and they would come in and have coffee. They worked something out with them, and then they never bothered him again.
MR: So he never had to pay protection?
JP: Never had to pay protection. But a caveat – sometimes the restaurant would not be doing so well in the offseason, and he would have to borrow money from sharks. He told me, “Chase Manhattan Bank doesn’t loan to people like us.”
MR: What kind of interest were they charging.
JP: It was probably like 6 or 7 percent – not crazy.
Not only that, if you were a neighborhood person, they would treat you very fairly. Of course, he never had a problem paying back, so it never went that far. But it was always a very clean business when you dealt with sharks. That’s why immigrants back then would always deal with the Mafia. It wasn't like a movie where somebody would come and break your legs. It was usually pretty clean.
An Italian, a Chinese, and a Dominican Walk into a Mass
MR: What about religion – did you go to Mass?
JP: I was an altar boy.
MR: And did you go every Sunday?
JP: Not only every Sunday, but like three times a week. I lived in that church, I lived in that sacristy. I wanted to become a priest like any good Catholic boy. I think first you do it to please your mom then you do to please God. I don't know whether one was more important than the other.
But then I was about 14, and I remember being on the altar seeing this beautiful girl with dark hair and green eyes, and I forgot all about the priesthood.
MR: What church did you go to?
JP: It was St. Patrick’s – it’s a Roman Catholic church on Mulberry Street.
MR: Was it odd to go as a Dominican?
JP: None of it was odd to me because I was part of the community.
MR: Did different ethnic groups go to different churches?
JP: Like I said, we were a mixed community of Chinese, Italians, and Dominicans. I'm not saying that it was perfect – you did hear racial stuff on all ends. But those people became your friends after a while. It was a real community.
When we went to church, they had the Spanish Mass, they had the Italian Mass, they even had a Cantonese mass. So everybody felt part of the community, even though everybody was doing their own thing.
MR: One thing I forgot to ask earlier – what was your favorite Chinese dim sum place back then?
JP: My favorite Chinese place was Nom Wah Tea Parlor – it’s still around.
MR: What about now?
JP: I couldn't tell you. I’m no longer interested in that kind of food, I guess.
But as far as dim sum is concerned, I would take my little brother Chris, and we would have chau siu bao – these warm pork buns. We would eat about five or six of them and have a cup of Ovaltine. The Chinese were obsessed with Ovaltine, I don’t know why.
Once you crossed Canal Street, it became officially Chinatown. You would cross into another world. We would no longer have the protections of Little Italy. Our personalities would change. I remember being 12 and going to use a payphone that was in the shape of a pagoda. For some reason I saw a shadow of a gun on the top part, so I reached over and I pulled out a .38. I quickly put it back, but it was one of these guns that the Ghost Shadows or Triads would stash in mailboxes or on top of phones, if something happened real quick.
MR: What restaurant in New York do you think you eat the most at today?
JP: Lil’ Frankies because it reminds me of growing up. Really good home-cooked Italian food. And probably Il Posto Accanto and Emilio’s Ballato. Those three restaurants probably hit the mark. And they’re not overpriced . One thing I can't stand is overpriced ethnic food . . . you know, what’s supposed to be peasant food.
MR: What do you think your three most-played songs from last year were?
JP: Two of them would be Johnny Cash songs, one of which is “Hurt,” and the other is “Folsom Prison Blues.” And my third song, which I’m going to get killed on this, but it’s probably “Mandy” by Barry Manilow.
MR: What radio station did you listen to?
JP: WBLS, WKTU. I remember the DJs – Wolfman Jack.
Big Man on Mott Street
MR: Did you have a favorite band growing up?
JP: Because I grew up Dominican, I had feet in two worlds. I listened to merengue. We had bands coming into New York all the time.
I was struggling with being Dominican and also being American. The American part won out. One of the main reasons I did go into the military is because I wanted to be American.
MR: Do you eat Dominican food today?
JP: Yes, absolutely.
MR: Where do you go?
JP: There’s a place in Queens called Mangu and there’s El Castillo in Manhattan.
MR: What about drugs – what drugs were popular when you grew up?
JP: Look, these things make a comeback. When I was a kid, heroin was huge. I lived in what was considered the epicenter of that heroin world. I remember walking up the street when I was like 17 or 18, and seeing the lead guitarist of ZZ Top – it’s like one o’clock in the morning, and I’m seeing this guy with this long beard. I yelled, “ZZ Top!” and he looks at me, puts his finger on his lips. He didn’t want anybody knowing he was there to score heroin.
I would chase junkies out of my building with a Mickey Mantle, size 44 bat. It wasn’t to play baseball; it was to kick junkies out of my building.
MR: What was your address?
JP: 316 Mott Street
We would shut down our street just have volleyball tournaments. We were in control of our own streets.
MR: What was the relationship with the cops like?
JP: People were afraid of the police, but they weren't necessarily handing out beatings in Little Italy. It was more we trusted the Mafia more than we did the Fifth Precinct.
I’ll put it to you this way, I didn't grow up looking up to the police or thinking that they were the good guys.
MR: Did you ever have any run-ins where you were physically in danger. What was the closest you ever came to really eating it?
JP: I saw people getting shot and stabbed in front of me because of drugs, but I wasn’t personally involved. I would be what you would call a good kid that kept in the middle. I had friends who were drug dealers, I had friends who were junkies, I had friends who were in the mob, I had friends who were thieves. I also had good people who were my friends. I wanted to be friends with everybody, but not owe them anything. My dad always said don't ever owe anybody anything. As I got older, my then-girlfriend who became my wife was walking with me through Little Italy. She goes, “Boy, you sure know a lot of junkies.”
As far as violence was concerned, violence was normal. I hate to say this, but I became desensitized to it very early on – seeing people get hit with baseball bats or right in front of my father's luncheonette seeing somebody get shot. You just think it's normal. Like it’s normal to buy your bedroom or your living room furniture out of a truck. Suits, couches, beds. The truck would pull up, and you would just pick what you wanted, and you took it upstairs.
Hometown Boy Makes Good
MR: What do you do now?
JP: I own a gym with my brother Chris and nephew, Junior, in Little Italy, in the neighborhood I grew up in – the neighborhood I grew up loving. I’m just so proud of that. It’s called Gym NYC. We’re on 227 Mulberry Street. I walked by this building a million times as a child. I never thought that I would come back here and have a business. The kid comes back to his neighborhood and owns a business. We’re very happy and proud of that because my dad also owned a business in this community. It means a lot to me to work with my brother and nephew.
MR: Do you floss?
JP: Not enough.
MR: Do you nap?
JP: I do like naps, even though they turn into a couple hour affair. That’s not even a nap anymore. What’s a nap? Five to ten minutes? That’s not enough.
MR: Do you snack during the day?
JP: I don't snack. I like big meals.
MR: How often do you eat a day?
JP: I eat about twice a day.
MR: What is the most common thing you eat for dinner or lunch?
JP: Meat. I’m going to piss off all the vegans. I’m about an 80% meat eater.
MR: Where do you get your meat from.
JP: Empire Market in College Point.
MR: What’s your go-to cut of meat?
JP: Really my favorite is a rib-eye, and I like to make it on a cast iron skillet.
MR: How do you cook your steak?
JP: Medium.
MR: Favorite steakhouse in New York of all-time?
JP: I really didn't go to steak houses too much because they were expensive. But then in my 20s, I acquired some friends that made it. We would go to Brooklyn right over the bridge. You know what place I’m talking about?
MR: Oh yeah.
JP: So we would always go there.
MR: What’s your favorite way to consume media?
JP: I don't own a television, I’ll tell you that – I haven’t owned a television in 40 years. I don't consume traditional media or traditional news. I like YouTube because I like my entertainment à la carte. I get to pick what I watch. For instance, if I want to know about knee pain, or if I want to know about Genghis Khan, and how he conquered the Russians, I just type it into YouTube, and I’m there.
MR: What was the last YouTube video you watched?
MR: Where do you listen to music?
JP: On Spotify.
MR: Do you have a favorite band now; anyone you get really obsessed with? Or do you just have pretty eclectic tastes?
JP: I’ll tell you this morning the first song that came on was “Ave Maria” by Pavarotti, then it was Johnny Cash, then it was Miami Sound Machine, so that pretty much covers it all.
MR: Do you think that’s a reflection of how you grew up?
JP: I was put in a situation where I saw so many different faces, heard so many different languages that I ended up loving it. My hope and my prayer is New York stays that way and doesn’t become just whitewashed. New York has become sort of a mall of New York, but I still see a lot of different faces and hear a lot of different languages, and that’s what makes the city great.